If youre following a recipe that calls for a specific water temperature, then it would be easier to do this with an offset at the PID. So the above instructions might not apply to the UK, I have the GC2019 but the live connection was the top right on the power switch when switched on, bottom left caused the PID to flicker and not work as expected, I fixed my issue but now the PID readout is 103 Dec but the water is 80 degrees, didnt think it would be off by this much. Regarding the M4 screw/ thermocouple, is it possible to amend the picture? Espresso Machines; Parts & Accessories; Posted by 4 years ago. Thread the thermocouple wire through to the back of the machine, and out the same slot as was used for the other wires. 5. Thanks, I see what you mean. Glad you got that sorted out. Hi Evan. Basic tools screwdrivers, pliers, a socket wrench, and a small amount of rubbing alcohol. If not, can you think of any potential mistakes I made along the way? Shades. I will purchase the PID kit with thermocouple and SSR from aliexpress and buy these rest small items from Mr. however the one SSR is nice and the modification gives upgraded steam with the solder mod. Thanks. Please see the compatible model list below (Note 1 on the bottom). Auber Instruments PID Kit for Gaggia Classic. Thank you Chris for the awesome write up. I opted to follow my connections according to your picture, rather than that text. And anything is going to be a huge improvement over the thermostat that the PID replaces. 19K Items sold. If so, any idea how it can be achieved? Apologies for the long questions, thanks in advance! Hi Chris, Is 103 degree Celsius the best target temperature fit the PID? Note: I fully tested the PID, SSR and thermocouple on the workbench before final installation. Thanks. Heres a picture of the screws I used, with screwdriver for scale: Great article and development, congrats! Do you think this makes difference? I have to mention that coffee taste is good, not harsh or bitter. I dont want to void my warranty. Have you got any ideas what might be going on? Thank you very much if you find the time to answer me . Then use the cursor keys to select the digits to increase and decrease. Thanks! P, I, d, controlling period, digital filter coefficient, and more (for control theory experts only) Fortunately, no damage done, and you can easily revert your changes. Thanks in advance, this was a huge help! What is your coffee bean dark or light? Would you be able to post starting values for the PID kit please? I know wiring might be different colours but is everything in the same place? Thanks a lot for the answer. Remove the thermostat. The PID, RTD sensor and SSR (20 Amps) are installed on Gaggia Classic Pro 2018+. I am glad you solved the problem, Murat. Gaggia Classic Seamless PID Upgrade. I found that carefully pushing the boiler up gives better access to the thermostat, either from above, or by reaching up from below. The SSR is only rated for 5 amps. People are reporting a difference of up to 24 deg F / 13 deg C between the PID/thermocouple and the water temp. I did not use a grommet. Your email address will not be published. Your wiring looks right. I wondered if you ended up testing both in the end. 3. that will make it where only one SSR is needed. It has a blue led not red like pictured.The kit works for 115 VAC and 240VAC. But that also seems fiddly. For the Gaggia Classic, taking into account the temperature drop between the boiler and the group head (5-8 degrees C), the PID target temperature should be set to about 103 degrees C or 220 degrees F at sea level. Warning! The only suprise for me has been that installing steam kit did not help me much because brewing kit alone helped to have great steaming power by only watching temperature climb up to 150 degrees. Slip some heat shrink tubing over the thermocouple, and ideally dip the thermocouple tip in some thermal grease, then insert the thermocouple into the adapter. If the wiring in your machine is different from our installation guide, please contact us. To be clear, a PID can increases the likelihood of a consistent starting temperature. This is a PID controller for the Gaggia Classic by Auber Instruments.This PID controls water and steam temperature. If you have a 12v pid could you do everything as you have done except the mains wiring and instead wire the pid directly to an old phone wall charger for power? How to install a PID on a Gaggia Classic Pro - DIY, cheap and good looking! Thanks again for the write up, Ill be playing around with temperature for the next week! BREWING UNIT RE-SETTING AND CLEANING. 103 or 105 is good. Stay connected. Might be easier for most folks to buy an M4 screw, type K, thermocouple direct vs trying to get the probe version then another adapter. I adjusted the calibration offset on the PID +5.5 degrees to read 212 degrees.Have you any suggestions of more accurately calibrating the PID and TC? You are right, its an M4 thread, not M3. If the PID stays on when wired directly to mains power, you will need to figure out which power wire to tap into. Previous topic - Next topic. 2. Box color. I would re-crimp any connections that look suspicious. My Gaggia Classic uses 18 awg wire for every connection inside. Make sure that all the new and repositioned wires are cleanly routed away from the boiler and pump and any uninsulated connectors. I managed the brew side PID and digging in for the steaming side, using PID alarm function of my XMT 7100 unit. Plug in a mains-rated cable connected to a piggyback spade connector, and then plug the original switched mains cable into the piggyback. It has been working flawless for the most part, but seen a few issues that havent seen before. Mounting Dimension: DIN: 1/16 (48mmX48mmX80mm) I installed the PID so that there are no permanent modifications to the machine, and the Gaggia can be returned to factory condition at any time. Other than that mine was a fairly straightforward procedure with no trouble at all. I would not try anything without checking first. However, when I flip the gaggia power switch to off, the PID LCD screen remains illuminated. CONCLUSION! You would need to put the boiler heater element between the controller terminals 2 and 3. Power input. Gaggia Classic Pro (released in 2018/2019) models, including the, PID temperature control kit for PID Retrofit KIT for Gaggia Classic & Home, KIT-GG, How to Download Manuals for Login-Required Kits, USB LCD PID Temp Controller with Timer, Ramp Soak Optional RS485, Silicone Braided Cable for PT100-L Series Probe, 12 ft, Water-Resistant 3-Pin Connector, Rear Mount, Round Flange Socket, (For orders placed recently in 2022) If you placed the order as a guest, you cantry the, (For orders placed a while ago) Please log in and download the manual from your order history page. See our 325 reviews on. At a minimum, I think you would need the following: I dont see piggyback connectors on Mr Shades list, maybe those are part of the set of wires, but its not clear. I deliberately avoided looking at the Mr Shades kits and instructions when I wrote this article, I dont want to steer people away from them. . Using two 5-8 cm pieces of properly-rated wire (15 amps for North America), make two connectors to connect the thermostat wires to the AC terminals of the solid state relay. Hi peeps, finally got all the bits n pieces to do the Pid, brew & steam mod on the gaggia, does anybody have any general instructions for putting this all together? https://www.auberins.com. Do you think this makes a difference? Hello, I acquired and prepared all cables and SSR unit thanks to your well prepared title above. The result was overshoot of up to 18C and an inability to return to the setpoint temp, 105C, unless I shut everything off and restarted. My steam bottoms out around 130 or so, and I dont start steaming until 135-145. This video clearly shows how to program in an offset on the Rex C-100: https://youtu.be/9aW8MfiKIPg?t=291. Use the other probe to check the other two wires coming from the power socket. I hesitate to identify wires by their color, as the wire colors in the Gaggia seem to vary from year to year and from region to region. It is still showing the M4 screw as the Crossed out/wrong one, and can be a bit confusing. Hi Jun, glad you found this helpful. For the sake of piece of mind, I have ordered last night a K type thermocouple in order to replace the RTD P100 and close the open loop in my head about PID type and sensor. I purchased an AC to AC SSR (SSR 40AA) which will stabilise steaming temperatures in much smaller margins than the original steam thermostat. Even though the wires are insulated, as someone posted earlier, that metal is sharp and the vibration from the machine may eventually cause the insulation to fail and then your whole machine is a conductor. Be careful, the edges of the hole in the chassis are very sharp. Run this wire along the rest of the existing cables and out the back of the Classic, through one of the vent slots. Monday - Friday: 10am - 4:30pm. You can use the same 18 gauge wire between the heating element and the SSR. Basically, instead of running the pump for a few seconds and then shutting it off (which dumps your pressure courtesy of the solenoid valve) you open the steam valve about 1/4 to half way, hit the brew switch and then slowly close the steam valve (about 5 seconds or so). Cheers. Can the PID be put inside the machine or does size constraints and/or heat negate that option? http://facebook.com/HKCoffeeHome EspressoGaggia Classic !Gaggia Classic can give a good espresso shot . https://photos.app.goo.gl/8yPwJcEPDi1c5tfY7 Fast, Free Shipping. Auber Instruments PID Kit for Gaggia Classic. Check for wire that might have been too aggressively stripped, where some of the conductor might have also been cut away. Hi Paul. Thoughts & musings from a product developer and manager. Hi Brian. However with the new steaming alarm system, I get a decrease around 10 degrees in steaming temperature as soon as AA SSR shuts down the boiler at the temperature I set, even it turns on right away (my setting is AL:156 AH:155 degrees Celcius). Wanted to double check here for some observations a about three months after installing the PID. Its getting very hot indeed so turned it off. The PID kit you described should work, but like the C-100 kit the I used, the included thermocouple wont fit in the Gaggia Classic. These set the parameters and algorithms that monitor and control. The listing shows both M3 and M4 options, and I typed the first one when I wrote the article. Pull the steam wand up and out of the Classic, and set it aside. Thanks. and I didnt work straight through, but I would say the PID took me about 2 hours, not counting the down time due to the crossed power wires. I plan to do this shortly for my old gaggia classic. Anyway, thank you Chris. Its one more thing to plug in, but the upside is that it would be electrically isolated from the Gaggia. Is it possible to do this with the GC factory temp sensor? It also means that you can only see the temperature and access the PID buttons from the top. I ran the Autotuning function couple of times and I am always getting the following values for P, I and D parameters: P=620 , I=32, D=8. You can take a look at this discussion about offset in the Gaggia Classic: https://coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/53319-what-temp-offset-are-you-using-with-your-pid/. It will depend on the beans you use, and your palate. Im on [emailprotected] My theory at the moment would be that due to the PID control the heater is sometimes on at higher temperatures. I love the Lego enclosure idea. Thanks for your reply: I think you are correct about the Gc being stuck in steam mode, but I never touched the steam switchs wires and reverting the top/bottom swap on the power switch didnt solve the issue. That being said, the original brew thermostat is supposed to be 107C, so could perhaps reach even higher temperatures? Im running into problems and I dont know if my REX-C100s starting values are the problem or if its my deviation with the wiring: Regardless of the temperature that i set on my PID, toggling the Gaggia on causes it to climb to 150-160C and then slowly decline to 118-125C, at which time it will heat up again. I print with PLA filament, which has a much lower melting temperature than the plastic that Lego uses. Did you have to alter your thermocouple at all to get it to fit into the adapter, like removing the cap on the end or something? I had to manually enable autotuning on my REX-C100 and i dont know if other values are screwed up or if its something else, since it really does seem like the boiler is getting power in bypass of whatever the PID is doing. The default target temperature on the PID will almost certainly not be correct. Auber Instruments PID Kit for Gaggia Classic. https://www.vertex-qis.co.uk/Manuals/PT100_con.pdf. . Started by Rocky47, June 28, 2019, 01:16:33 PM. PID Modification by Auber Instruments' Customer. Hi Jun. Great guide. The thermostat is a replacement, the original one burned around three years ago. Thank you again for taking the time to write up such a great guide. Maybe this will help? This product was added to our catalog on Tuesday 26 June, 2007. The PID will show the temperature, and be somewhat confused by its inability to reach its setpoint, however the PID is bypassed in the same way when the GCP is in steam mode. I used P:2,4 I:40 D:10 and Souf:0.2 which gives a shot stability around 2 degrees for single, 4 degrees for double shots. PID Kit for older plastic body Gaggia Classic. You can mod the XMT7100 yourself but it requires soldering on the PCB, basically removing the onboard relay and then jumpering the empty terminals. The image I used is wrong and confusing, and I have now updated it. The PID will be more or less bypassed when the steam switch is on, it will just stop trying to heat because the boiler will be over the PIDs target temperature. This PID-SSR combination does away with the 12v connection, and uses three wires for the mains power and SSR, with one wire shared between mains and the SSR output. Either way, you are looking at a lot more complexity and cost. Watching the steam temp with the PID is interesting (I know it has no effect on it, but it is cool to see how it reacts now) and it is definitely best practice to steam while its on its way up in temp, once it hits the set point it comes down for a while (mine settled around 130 before it started back up). Is this a typo on your part or a mistake on their part? I can do a more detailed writeup of what Ive done if anyone feels like helping me find out whats not working properly! https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4243840. On top of the original price tag, international shipping, taxes, duties and currency exchanges can make obtaining these kits time consuming and even more expensive. Looks like thats not an option. This guide explains this well, and also explains what to do if your home wiring is not correct: https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/195229/in-a-light-switch-how-can-i-tell-if-the-black-wire-is-really-hot-and-the-white. So I say go for it, but as Chris said, if you really dont feel comfortable with it, pass on the PID or try to find someone who can install it for you. See all. I want to get a PID for my GC. When the temperature stabilizes to within 1 degree of the target temperature, the auto-tuning is complete. Hi Chris, I appreciate your tutorials on the PID install. (Gaggia Classic) Close. The thermocouple connects to terminals 6 and 7. I found that moving the boiler up and to the side allowed me to get to the thermostat from the bottom really easily vs. the top. It looks like your GC is in steam mode. To do this, loosen the nut connecting the steam wand to the steam control assembly. Monitor and display the boiler temperature precisely. The black box has a durable powder coating. 1 RELAY alarm: Normal open, capacity 250V/3A AC or 30V/3A DC I start to run the steam at about 130 in the heating cycle on my setup. Did you reverse any wires to the steam switch? I got the white plastic in one of the stock connectors a bit burned, the plastic looks brown in some areas and a bit melted. Im wondering if this could somehow be the outcome of a bad SSR: Im not seeing current flow between the two AC terminals of the SSR when the PID is attempting to heat the boiler to the Set Temp. I have an old Gaggia Carezza (uses the Gaggia / SaecoEF0030/A Boiler). If you purchased the kit from our website, you can download the manual zip file from our website by one of the following methods: Note:
I used lamp cord for this. Regardless of which thermocouple you choose to use, you will also need to factor in an offset no matter what thermocouple you use, and this is really based on your tastes. Never used a K type so I cant say for sure. The YouTube video from wll about replacing the boiler made the whole thing very easy. 6 Reviews (6) $326.00. My P value is quite a lot different than yours. The ability to make good espresso is one of the most coveted skills in the coffee world. Hi David. I have few questions for you about this setup. Hey Chris, My problem is that since installing the mod, my machine gets way too hot and boils. From what I gather, youre located in the lower mainland (B.C.)? Just use a multimeter to find the switched mains, and you should be able to follow the thermostat wires. Unblocking Solenoid Valve-Classic and Baby. I actually installed mine and then saw your thread, which is awesome to see other people using the same PID. I would like to use it for steaming ONLY. There is no 12v anywhere in the GCP, its all mains power inside. This is really a DIY project. Try powering the PID directly from mains power, with just the thermocouple connected (disconnect the SSR). I have only been drinking milk drinks and americanos because the shots I was pulling were always overly bitter, sour, or both, regardless of grind and quantity. Pull the two wires that you removed from the thermostat up to the top of the machine, near the rest of the wires that run from the front to the back of the machine. GRAN GAGGIA PRIMING. Thus brewing circuit needs to be connected directly to the heating element, not over steaming circuit. Thanks, David. 3: For owners of the Gaggia Classic ProRI9380 240Vversion, please check the installation guide "KIT-GG_Classic Pro US 120V_Installation". Gaggia Classic Coffee Machine Modelo 3D TurboSquid 1036412. I would be glad if you have any recommendations. I will monitor it over the next few days, but if the coffee takes good, and the only thing I notice is the warmer cup tray, Ill be fine with that, better in fact! The SSR is just a fancy switch and it should only be turning on and off, so depending on how you measure you may not see current. Thanks for the PID info. The kit installation is fully reversible. It would also be a bit of a weird machine, but this approach wouldnt require any mods or re-setting of temperatures to use the machine to brew. Have you gone through the (three) menus on the pid , using the instructions of your pid. Do not undertake this procedure if you are not comfortable or uncertain. Does the PID generate enough heat to melt the Lego bricks? Its stimulated a lot of interesting discussion! I am only using the Rex temporarily while working on a project with a Raspberry Pi (and the cost of the Rex was only a couple dollars when ordering the SSR), otherwise I would reprint the entire enclosure with the hooks built in. Is it necessary to use a heat sink with the SSR installation? Hi Eddie. Thanks for your time. With a SV of 103C (not offset), during initial overshoot the heater would sometimes be one when it was at 104-105C with the temperature rising as high as 108. This morning I pulled my first shot with the PID. I know what I will be trying tomorrow , Hi, I have a similar model, C100-Fk02-V*AN. Most likely they will have the same connector types as the REX-C100, but its always possible that you will need different connectors depending on what you end up ordering. You said here that the to get an M3 thread for the boiler. The PID works after hooking everything up. Rancilio SilviaPID. At the amperages required to control the boiler heating element, you need an SSR that has enough mass and exposed metal to be able to attach it to a heat sink. Thats an awesome enclosure. But I wondered if anyone has had the same problem and already found the answer! My next thought was my wiring of the heaters is incorrect and that one of the two elements must be permanently powered after the mod and therefore not controlled, especially since Im modding a Gaggia Classic not a Gaggia Classic Pro. Display: Dual display for Fahrenheit(F) and Celsius(C) Unlike the 7200 model, this one does not have SSR inside. One thing I would really recommend when anyone installs a PID system into the Gaggia Classic is to install a rubber grommet where the cables exit the machine. I had no problem with my mod other than the stickers on the back of the PID were reversed, so the terminal markings were not correct. It would be almost impossible for me to give you a complete list of the parts from Mr Shades that you will need, as it will depend on the PID and SSR models you order. Hi David. Also noticed if you use the steam for the milk it takes a lot of time to go back down (10min) to the set temp(i do run water through the boiler to bring the temp down, but it floats at a higher temp for a bit), does the steam affect the PID calculation or dont I need to worry about it? Is this typical? 100% Positive Feedback. Please contact us if any questions. It has worked without issue so far, and maybe thats bound to happen to the plastic as current goes through and it gets old, but would love to hear other opinions. While the steam switch is engaged, the PID serves to provide a temperature reading of the boiler, which is great, because you can use that temperature reading to time when to start steaming for maximum steam performance. The A vs E should not make a difference as I am not using alarm function, and am using it with a 3-wire PT100. Once warmed up, the recovery time is quick and the swing is fairly minimal. Even if that is the case, i dont have a clue as to why i would be in steam mode, since i didnt touch the steam mode button or its wires, i have already reverted my swap of the power switches wires (just from up to down on the same switch so that shouldnt have impacted anything) and ive validated that the rollback was correct with a multimeter. To find the neutral inside the GC, you have to test using a multimeter or voltage meter. Was hoping to actually just install one of these: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/264849127538 Do you think that REX-C100FK02-V*EN (designed for K-type thermocouple) is compatible with RTD (PT100) and is not going to create long-term problems with the machine/setup? The solution is PID control via means of an industrial temperature controller; this is a common modification amongst the Gaggia and Rancillio community. Hi Chris, 5: The PID controller in this kit is NOT SYL-1512A. Good idea Chris. Ill verify the cable, its one of the cables that came with the machine, so it could likely be the strands have slowly burned with time and just needs cutting and re-crimping, as you mention. Autotuning had resulted in shot instability up to 10 degrees during a shot probably because conditions during standby and during brewing are very different than each other. I did that exercise before installing the PID, behavior should be identical as that time. on orders over $49. The documentation showed the default settings as P:30 I:240 D:60, but after tuning they were P:37 I:50 D:12. Youre probably fine with either one. Brilliant article. It was impossible to see without getting down into the wire harness. Perhaps Ill use a spare Arduino or FPGA to PWM the boiler while brewing as someone else was saying. Glad this writeup helped. What you describe is pretty normal, except that I am a bit surprised that your steam drops temperature down to 102. The Gaggia Classic is a very capable espresso machine that gets even better with a couple of improvements. Accuracy: 0.2% I cant see how this wouldnt be a thermostat problem, unless you somehow wired the steam thermostat into the PID, but you would have gone way beyond this walkthrough to do that. After autotuning, my values are: I have to turn the set point on the PID down to about 85C to stop it boiling and getting steam and a great deal of sputter out of the portafilter. When the pump runs, it vibrates the chassis and it will be a matter of time before it cuts through the wiring insulation. I hope you enjoy your upgraded GC as much as I do mine! Hope this helps. Chris thank you so much. 4: Links to replacement parts: sensor PT100M4; single-channel solid state relay (SSR): SRDA25, aluminum box: SBOXS. We ship every business day from our two warehouses located in Milton, Ontario and Calgary, Alberta. Some people have done this by replacing the water filler funnel and 3D printing a replacement cover. Since installing the modification, I get a huge amount of steam and spray coming out of the portafilter when I first operate the pump so much so, that it sprays all over the worktop around the machine! I fully tested the PID, using the same 18 gauge wire between the heating element and the SSR away... And pump and any uninsulated connectors it will be trying tomorrow, hi, I have to mention coffee... Is it possible to do if your home wiring is not correct: https //youtu.be/9aW8MfiKIPg! Might be going on machine, and then saw your thread, which is awesome see. 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Gaggia Classic: https: //diy.stackexchange.com/questions/195229/in-a-light-switch-how-can-i-tell-if-the-black-wire-is-really-hot-and-the-white auber pid kit gaggia classic now updated it for single, 4 degrees for single 4. That monitor and control then saw your thread, not M3 confusing, and set it aside you. The back of the machine, and a small amount of rubbing alcohol being said the! Using PID alarm function of my XMT 7100 unit other wires ; Accessories Posted. Had the same 18 gauge wire between the heating element and the SSR only the! Most part, but after tuning they were P:37 I:50 D:12 115 VAC and 240VAC quick the... Would like to use it for steaming only that might have been too aggressively stripped where! Only see the compatible model list below ( Note 1 on the bottom.... One, and you should be able to follow the thermostat wires Modification by Auber Instruments & # ;! This well, and a small amount of rubbing alcohol improvement over thermostat. 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